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0:00
Breaking late this afternoon
, brand new
0:03
bombshell reporting
from the Wall Street
0:05
Journal
that might explain why Donald
0:07
Trump appears
so anxious
and frankly
0:10
flat-footed
when it comes to releasing
0:12
documents
related to Jeffrey Epstein.
0:14
The Wall Street Journal citing senior
0:16
administration officials
in its
0:18
reporting
that when Justice Department
0:20
officials reviewed
what Attorney General
0:23
Pam Bondi
called a quote
truckload of
0:26
documents
related to Epstein earlier
0:28
this year,
they discovered Donald
0:30
Trump's name
appeared multiple times
0:32
from that report.
Quote, "In May,
Bondi
0:35
and her deputy informed the president
at
0:37
a meeting in the White House
that his
0:39
name was in the Epstein files."
The
0:40
official said
many other high-profile
0:43
figures
were also named.
Trump was told
0:46
being mentioned
in the records
isn't a
0:48
sign of wrongdoing.
The officials said
0:50
it was a routine briefing
that covered a
0:52
number of topics
and that Trump's
0:54
appearance
in the documents
wasn't the
0:56
focus.
Now, in response to this
0:59
reporting
in the Wall Street Journal,
1:00
the White House has issued a statement
1:03
to NBC News
that reads, quote,
"The fact
1:06
is that
the president kicked him out of
1:09
his club
for being a creep.
This is
1:11
nothing more than a continuation
of the
1:14
fake news stories
concocted by the
1:17
Democrats
and the liberal media,
just
1:19
like the Obama Russia gate scandal,
1:22
which President Trump was right about."
1:23
End quote.
1:25
That is
where we start today
with some
1:26
of our favorite reporters and friends.
1:28
Staff writer
at The Atlantic,
Jonathan
1:30
Chait, is here.
Also joining us, MSNBC
1:33
senior political analyst,
my colleague,
1:34
Alex Wagner's here,
and former top
1:37
official
at the Department of Justice.
1:38
MSNBC legal analyst
Andrew Weissman is
1:41
here.
Because this story dropped,
I want
1:44
to do a little bit more
of letting this
1:47
sink in
for any of our viewers
who
1:49
haven't had a chance
to read through it
1:51
all
before I turn this over to all of
1:53
you.
This importantly
from the Wall
1:55
Street Journal
which um I think days ago
1:58
found itself
on the receiving end of a
2:00
lawsuit
from Donald Trump because of its
2:02
reporting
on this elaborate birthday
2:05
card and drawing.
So important
that it's
2:07
the journal again out ahead
in this
2:09
story with a new scoop.
It reads, um,
2:13
Bondi also told the president
at this
2:15
meeting
that the Justice Department
2:17
decided to not release more Jeffrey
2:19
Epstein documents
because of the
2:21
presence of child pornography
and the
2:22
need to protect victims
. Trump and
2:25
Attorney General Bondi
um uh when the
2:29
Justice Department reviewed
what
2:30
Attorney General Pam Bondi called this
2:32
truckload of documents
related to
2:34
Jeffrey Epstein,
they discovered Trump's
2:36
name appeared multiple times
. As we
2:38
reported in May,
they informed the
2:40
president of this.
The officials said it
2:42
was a routine briefing.
Um, this is
2:45
interesting.
Quote, they also told Trump
2:47
that senior Justice Department officials
2:49
did not plan
to release any more
2:50
documents
related to the investigation
2:53
of the convicted sex offender
because
2:55
the material contained child pornography
2:57
and victim's personal information.
Trump
2:59
said at the meeting
he would defer to
3:00
the Justice Department's decision
to not
3:02
release any further files.
Um, Andrew
3:05
Weissman,
just take us inside
what this
3:07
reporting is detailing
and what it says
3:10
to you.
3:12
Sure.
So, I think
the main issue that
3:15
people need to focus on
is the
3:17
schizophrenic
3:19
approach
of the Trump administration
to
3:22
this issue.
On the one hand
they are
3:25
saying
we want to be
as transparent as
3:29
possible
and on the other hand
they're
3:31
saying
we're not releasing anything.
Um
3:34
so they on the transparency part
they
3:37
say we want to be transparent
and we're
3:39
going to go to court
and we're going to
3:41
ask judges
to release grand jury
3:43
transcripts
. Now they know that
the law
3:46
on that issue is dead
set against them.
3:49
So they can blame the courts
when they
3:51
say no
It's also in grand jury
3:54
transcripts,
the actual proceedings in
3:55
the grand jury
are the area
where it's
3:58
least likely
that Donald Trump's name
4:00
appears.
4:02
By contrast,
the part where they are not
4:04
turning anything over
is all of the
4:07
voluminous investigative material,
which
4:10
the Wall Street Journal
now is
4:11
reporting,
which something that
we sort
4:13
of assumed had to be true,
but now the
4:16
reporting is it is true,
which is that
4:18
material has Donald Trump's name
in it.
4:21
And of course,
that's not shouldn't be
4:23
surprising
because there's so much
4:24
reporting
that the two of them
knew each
4:26
other and socialized
with each other. It
4:28
doesn't mean they
that Donald Trump
4:30
committed a crime,
but his reaction to
4:32
this is the thing
that's probably the
4:34
most telling
because it certainly is he
4:36
protests too much.
But that material and
4:38
this is sort of the take-home
I think
4:40
for everyone
and where I when I think
4:42
about this
is that material the
4:45
voluminous investive material
that the
4:47
Department of Justice
has that can be
4:50
turned over right now today
this minute.
4:54
There is no grand jury requirement
that
4:57
you go to court to turn that over.
So
5:00
here, if the Department of Justice
and
5:02
the Trump administration is saying,
"Oh,
5:04
we want to be transparent."
That is
5:06
information
that they don't need to go
5:07
to the court
and turn over.
We just saw
5:09
them do that in the Martin Luther King
5:11
Jr. files turning that over.
So you
5:14
really are seeing this continuation
of a
5:16
schizophrenic approach
and the Wall
5:18
Street Journal reporting
gives you
5:21
certainly a motive for
why they are sort
5:24
of on the one hand
saying we're going to
5:26
go to court
and the other hand saying
5:27
the stuff
that's most likely to name
5:29
Donald Trump we are not disclosing.
5:33
I mean Alex
we also get a little bit of
5:35
the timeline filled in.
Let me read a
5:37
little bit more
from this new reporting
5:39
in the journal.
This meeting
, they write
5:41
about set the stage
for the high-profile
5:44
review
to come to an end.
Pam Bondi had
5:46
said in February
that Epstein's client
5:48
list was quote sitting
on my desk right
5:50
now to review end quote.
Trump said last
5:53
week in response
to a journalist
5:54
question
that Bondi had not told him his
5:56
name was in the files.
The
5:58
administration didn't publicly announce
6:00
the decision
until weeks later.
The
6:02
journal continues
on July 7th
when the
6:05
Justice Department posted a memo
to its
6:07
website
. The statement,
which was
6:09
unsigned,
stated that a thorough review
6:12
had turned up no list
of Epstein's
6:14
clients,
no evidence
that would lead to
6:17
an investigation
of uncharged third
6:19
parties,
and no additional documents
6:21
that merited public disclosure.
It said
6:25
that
much of the material would have
6:26
been sealed
in a trial to protect
6:28
victims and to block the dissemination
6:30
of child pornography.
6:32
um your thoughts about
how far this
6:35
reporting goes in
in filling in some of
6:37
the blanks.
6:38
Well, I mean,
I think it's enormously
6:41
consequential.
Um, I think
this is a
6:43
huge stress test
for Trump and his
6:45
coalition,
which, you know, it's not all
6:48
of MAGA,
but it is Steuart Rhodess,
it
6:50
is Steen Bannon,
it is Michael Flynn,
it
6:52
is a certain significant portion
of his
6:55
base
that is animated by this notion
6:58
that the deep state
and the dismantling
7:00
of the deep state are job number one for
7:03
Donald Trump.
It's bigger than
any
7:05
tariff war
or any social safety net
7:07
program
or even maybe immigration.
For
7:09
them, this is the animating sort of
7:12
factor
in their support for Trump. And
7:14
it's why
Stuart RH said Donald Trump's
7:16
life was spared
during the assassination
7:18
attempts.
He was here to dismantle this
7:20
elite cabal
and open back up our
7:24
democracy. Right?
I'm paraphrasing.
Uh,
7:26
and they believe
so much in that deep
7:29
state
that I think up until this point,
7:31
maybe even
till this article, Nicole,
7:33
they believe that
Trump was shielding
7:35
the deep state
and the elite cabal
7:39
and not actually maybe just covering his
7:41
own butt
because he was implicated in
7:42
these Epstein files.
And now there is
7:45
definitive information
coming from not
7:47
the New York Times,
not the Washington
7:49
Post,
but Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street
7:51
Journal,
the same man
who owns Fox News,
7:53
that Donald Trump's name
is not only in
7:56
the Epstein files,
Donald Trump knew it,
7:58
and Donald Trump lied to the public
8:00
about that knowledge.
That seems really
8:02
significant.
You say that
and we have
8:04
this information
alongside the
8:06
Department of Justice reaching out
to
8:08
Gileain Maxwell.
This would seem to tie
8:10
their hands greatly
in terms of what
8:13
they can maybe offer her
to help them
8:15
out
because quite obviously
it looks now
8:18
like the president may be trying to hide
8:20
something
to protect himself
and his own
8:22
reputation
and if there is any deal
any
8:26
pardon any anything
with Gain Maxwell
it
8:29
will be in service to the president's
8:30
own ends
and not that of dismantling the
8:32
deep state.
Well, it's so interesting,
8:35
Alex.
I mean,
you start with Stuart
8:37
Rhodess.
You mentioned Stuart Rhodess,
8:39
Mike Flynn,
and Steve Bannon.
They
8:41
aren't just hardcore
8:44
Trump.
They aren't just hard hardcore
8:46
MAGA.
They are three recipients of
8:49
pardons.
The only reason
they are freely
8:52
walking
the earth is because Donald
8:53
Trump pardoned those three men
and they
8:56
are on the other side
of Trump and his
8:58
justice department
on this story.
9:01
Yes, it is an important data point
and
9:04
it tells you the degree to
which again
9:07
this is a the banner
under which like at
9:10
the expense of their relationship
with
9:11
the president
who they owe their freedom
9:13
to
this is their their cause
the deep
9:17
state
and and Steve Bannon said look
9:19
it's not that he's going to lose
it's
9:21
not that Trump could lose his entire
9:22
coalition
in the course of this Epstein
9:24
saga
it's just that he could lose 10 to
9:27
15%
and that's enough to lose the house
9:29
and that's enough
to lose Congress
in
9:31
2026 and the presidency in 2028.
And I
9:33
think that's real math.
9:36
Jonathan,
it Alex has made this point.
9:39
Um we made this point.
I mean it's
9:41
coming
from the Wall Street Journal I
9:43
think about
65 hours
after the lawsuit
9:46
um wasn't just threatened
but I think
9:48
filed against
um the journal the
9:51
journalists
and the parent company and
9:53
Robert Murdoch personally.
What is the
9:55
significance of these reporters
and this
9:58
news organization
not being intimidated
10:01
from following the facts
wherever they
10:02
lead?
10:04
It's really interesting to me
that
10:06
Donald Trump said openly
that he went to
10:08
Rupert Murdoch
despite the story.
10:10
Murdoch said
he would do it,
didn't
10:14
follow through,
at least indicated to
10:16
Trump he would do it,
which might have
10:17
been less of a committal response
than
10:20
than Murdoch meant to give.
Um, didn't
10:23
do it.
And then Trump held up this fact
10:25
as if it showed that
Murdoch lacks
10:27
journalistic ethics
when when really the
10:30
opposite is the case.
In fact, this
10:31
would actually be a scandal
under a
10:33
normal president
that the president
10:34
tried to go to a newspaper's owner
to
10:36
spike a damaging story
about himself.
10:39
Um, but I think
we should be a little
10:42
bit cautious about
um how much the fact
10:45
that
it's the Wall Street Journal
and
10:46
not the Times
or the Post is going to
10:48
carry a a weight
with Trump's base.
10:51
Trump has always defined fake news
as
10:53
anything
that that reports unfavorable
10:56
facts against him.
And at at times
there
10:58
have been reporters
at Fox News
who have
11:00
broken
or confirmed unflattering
11:02
information
for Donald Trump.
And he
11:04
just says
they're Trump haters.
They're
11:06
rhinos.
It's it's fake news.
And his
11:08
base will just go along
and just say
11:09
definitionally any facts
that Donald
11:11
Trump doesn't like is fake news
11:13
regardless of the source.